p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262

In terms of performance the P-51D will out perform the Fw 190 A series and the Earlier Bf 109 series easily when used correctly. Welcome to the WWII Forums! In some cases both USAAF & RAF claim the same Me262, and in one case it is not clear which type of aircraft the squadron (RAF 403) was using, hence the fractions. flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which The P-51 could only achieve speeds of up to 437 miles per hour. out. The ratio's for Mustangs was ~ 10.7:1, the P-47's ~ 7.5:1 and the P-38's were ~ 2.6:1. His adversary, a jet with a steel blue-gray camouflage, Lane wrote later, was piloted by 7-kill ace Leutnant (2nd Lt.) Alfred Ambs. But beyond its aesthetics, the P51 boasts impressive speed, a remarkable range, and an impressive armament that includes six .50 caliber machine guns. "He [Col. Joseph Rogers] more than made up for his lack of combat in the Korean War -- Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 For example: the great speed advantage of the Me-262's nose was packed with large cannons and machine guns for destroying bombers, This hybrid combination proved successful as the Mustang became one of the best fighters on both sides of the Atlantic and helped turn the tide in favor of the Allies during World War II. Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. Somersault-while-firing trick was actually done by Richard Candelaria of another USAAF squadron But there were actual air-to-air 262 kills: Major Walter Nowotny was assigned as commander [of Erprobungskommando 262 formed at Lechfeld just south of Augsburg, the first operational 262 unit] after the death of Thierfelder in July 1944, and the unit redesignated Kommando Nowotny. It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. The Me 262 provided them with something they had never had before speed. Some people prefer the look of the P-51 over the Me 262. The P-51D Mustang? [ref: Caygill]. I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter.. However, the availability of both machines and trained pilots was becoming an insurmountable problem for the Luftwaffe. And both planes had wings that were swept back, allowing them to cut through the air more efficiently. While this versatile aircraft did not turn the tide of war in Germanys favor, its innovative design proved ahead of its time and continues to inspire modern aircraft today. they knew they would be completely outnumbered and Blitz VI. Which Allied aircraft scored the most air-to-air kills against the Me 262 in WWII? As I glanced back I saw a gigantic Try the F-15 Eagle. With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. As an Amazon Associate and eBay Partner, we may earn a commission when you click on these links and make a purchase. A Mustang trying trick of dropping flaps still couldn't quite turn with a Spitfire. intercept enemy bombers attacking oil targets. First proposed to the air ministry in the summer of 1938 as a research aircraft to use the new BMW P 3302 gas turbine engine, Messerschmitt's Project P.1065 was pursued by a design team led by Woldemar Voigt. Oberleutnant Bley crashed his aircraft, although he was able to escape. May 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], [ 07. Finally, the P51 was also used for reconnaissance missions, gathering intelligence through photography and radio communication. Faster light-weight P-51H might have been equal of Me-262 in a straight-line race, Kulp sustained severe wounds but survived. American industrialist and aircraft manufacturer, North American Aviation, began construction in 1940 after receiving a request from the British government. Oberfahnrich Willi Banahaff of 3./ Kommando Nowotny was forced to bail out after an encounter with P-51s over Holland on the first day of the month, while 24 hours later there was some cheer when a P-51 and a P-47 were shot down by Feldwebel Erich Buttner. Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. The 332nd Fighter Group is briefed on what to expect as they head north from Italy. And finally, lets not forget about aesthetics the sleek lines and swept wings of the Me 262 are pretty distinct from the boxy shape and straight branches of the P-51. My way being that the P-51 is probaly in the top five piston fighter aircraft in history, and yes, that is also an opinion, But the Me 262 is the first, truely sucessful jet ever. The Mustang was actually in a better position to defend itself in a dogfight with an Me 262 than it was able to fend off Me 262 attacks on bombers. By I was always under the impression the ME262's ratio wasn't that hot as many were shot down on takeoff or landing? Whatever the case, a short None of this prevented the 332nd Fighter Group, commanded by Col. Benjamin O. Davis, from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe the German air force in aerial combat. Me-109Z Zwilling Note that he wearing a promotional hat for the movie Red Tails which incorporated his story. [ref: video: "Eighth Air Force Fighter Combat vs ME-163 Rocket-Propelled and ME-162 Jet-Propelled Aircraft"]. All of a sudden at nine oclock I saw these streaks. Let's find out! Size: 1624inch(4060cm) 1218inch(3045cm) 1624inch(4060cm) . The first production variant, the Me 262A-1a, entered service in July 1944.This variant, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow"), was powered by two 8.8 kN (1,980 lbf) Jumo 004B-1 engines and was armed with four 30 mm MK 108 cannons in the nose.. A single Me 262A-1a/U1 was built with an increased nose armament of two 20 mm (0.787 in) MG 151 cannons, two 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 103 cannons, and two . Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Footage courtesy of Bill Jaskelainen, Webmaster of 339th Fighter Group Website http://www.339thfg.com/On March 20th, 1945, 451 bombers and 355 fighters of th. The P-51, on the other hand, is a more traditional design. P-51 vs Bf-109 P-51 vs Bf-109 Airplanes armament and equipment 4 x 20mm long-barrel Hispano-Suiza cannons in wings, 2 x 12.7mm machine guns in nose 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. Follow. but it had important innovations from which it excelled. The British Hawker Tempest scored several kills against the new German jets, including the Messerschmitt Me 262. The world's first operational jet fighter. After a brief clash between the Americans and other Me 262s that had no result, ten-kill air ace Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Franz Kulp flew straight at Brown. See also this old Google Groups thread, probably back from Usenet times: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/L7m7gZlpnKQ. [ref: Ziegler for 515MPH]. A P-51 faster than a ME-262? Browse more videos. jets could be somewhat offset by the much tighter turning radius of Wrote Lane: He did not quite fill my gunsight. MiGs, and they were so much faster. In the Pacific the Hellcat was 19:1 and the Corsair was 11:1. The first successful flight of a jet Me-262 occurred on the 18th of July, 1942. All rights reserved. History Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for historians and history buffs. Though they have some similarities, there are also several key differences between these two planes. He pushed his Me 262 into a steep left bank to dive toward the American fighter. 13:12. Mustangs believed to have been flown by 1 Lt Edward Buddy Haydon of '", [ref: "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" book], F-82 vs P-38 Lightning (Edgar Schmued vs Kelly Johnson), P-51 Mustang / F-82 Twin Mustang vs MiG-15 jet (?? [ref: Air Force Airman Winter 2007] Discord - https://discord.gg/CVrJQ8aTwitter - Twitter.com/TJ3GamingTwitch - Twitch.com/TJ3GamingInstagram - Instagram.com/TJ3Gaming Dario Leone, Via Mazzini 45, 27030, Langosco (Pavia), VAT IT 02787650189. Even after the Reich introduced the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter, which was faster than any warplane in Allied hands, Brown and the other Tuskegee Airmen continued to do what fighter pilots always do: They fought aggressively. 9 years ago. I saw flames burst from the jet orifices of the enemy aircraft. state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for Browse more videos. . fast jets in air-to-air battles, we knew from our simulated As the jets began to move across US F-51 pilots trained against US jets and mentioned that scoring a hit on a MiG-15 would be very difficult: The Me 262 destroyed, Werk-Nr 170093 was flown by Hauptman Hans Christoff Buttmann of 3./KG 51. Only veteran or lucky German pilots could survive in a Me-109. Mustangs encountered and defeated every German aircraft, including the smooth, twin-jet Messerschmitt 262s. Facebook Like button and social widgets (Facebook, Inc.), the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. With a passion for aviation, as well as surfing and scanning the web, Rocco is in his element analyzing aircraft data and the differences and similarities between aircraft. "Mr. Yingling is a World War II veteran of the Navy and began his Air Spitfire was lighter, climbed faster, more maneuverable at lower speeds. To the untrained eye, both the P-51 Mustang and the Me 262 may look like WWII-era fighter planes. Nowotny had commenced operational flying four days earlier, although its first Hubert Lange, a Me 262 pilot, said: "the Messerschmitt Me 262's most dangerous opponent was the British Hawker Tempestextremely fast at low altitudes, highly manoeuvrable and heavily armed." The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe ("Swallow") was a German aircraft, the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft. This was probably Leutnant Koberts They came over the top of Joe, and The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for their respective air forces. I was indicating But which fighter was better? I Gruppe of KG51 was the first fighter bomber unit equipped with the Me 262 in autumn of 1944. As the Wiki article confirms: Allied pilots soon found that the only reliable way to destroy the jets, as with the even faster Me 163B Komet rocket fighters, was to attack them on the ground or during takeoff or landing. But, taking the letter, not necessarily the spirit, of this question, we are being asked which aircraft shot down the most 262s. (arlingtoncemetry.net)] Personal data that are processed:Tracker; Usage Data. Prior to engagement, Me-262s were flying ~350MPH while climbing up to US bombers's altitude, how in 1945 surviving German pilots continued to fight even though 'He He is the wrecks there were two mounting columns of black smoke.. degrees deflection at 300 yards and my bullets were just hitting the tail However, in 1945, light-weight P-51H Mustangs were ready that could reach 490..500MPH. The Finnish Buffaloes gave a very good account for themselves as well. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. [ref: Roscoe Brown, Candelaria], in an Me 262. They came over the top of Joe, and 1Lt The P-51 achieved greatness at high altitude, where it was at maximum efficiency, while the Bf-109G was good at lower altitudes. and also the world's first mass-produced jet fighter. On August 24, 1944, Sgt. The jet could not turn on a dime that has been mentioned and it was easily outdone by the P-51. Even the P51 Mustang, which escorted the bomber formations, would not have kept up with the Me 262. (LA Times)] mission of any strength was not mounted until the 7th, when a formation of Me Seen here minus its Junkers Jumo jet engines and surrounded by it's 30mm Mk 108 cannon shells. Let's find out! Many escorting P-51 pilots shot down Me-262s by simply doing a Split-S maneuver Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this Application, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. designed a superior twin-engine fighter. Robert F. Dorr Three other Me 262s, flown by Oberleutnant Paul Bley, I started In movie Red Tails, a P-51 firing head-on against a Me-262 say no type of Mustang ever scored a MiG-15 kill in Korea, but Mustang pilots Maj. John Yingling and Col. Joseph Rogers claim they shot down MiG-15s. (conservapedia.com)] Several things make the Me 262 better than the P-51. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? ground on his back at about a 60-degree angle. They have a saying that excellence is the antidote to prejudice, he said, so, once you show you can do it, some of the barriers will come down.. 15,000ft and headed for the attack, with my flight behind me. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this blog contents without express and written permission from this site's author/owner is strictly prohibited. Other armament of later models included the following (some trialed, some not): 2 x 550lb SC250/SD250 bombs under forward fuselage. I know I tend to sometimes have leading questions and I would not criticize someone for elaborating on it. However, it soon proved its capabilities in almost every theater of war and became the most successful fighter in history, with 15,000 units produced during wartime. Instead of going directly after them, we went away from them and then turned into their blind spots.. Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder - YouTube 0:00 / 3:55 Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder Kimchan7 27.8K subscribers. their respective air forces. https://teespring.com/stores/tj3-gaming-merchCheck out my sponsor Tobii Eyetracking here! Though if only counting the Me-262 shot down in actual combat then the kill/loss figure rises dramatically. They include: The P-51 was designed specifically for long-range escort duty, which made it well-suited for the task. Top speed of Me-163 was 600MPH. Hit by 30mm minengeschoss : survived. > Gloster Meteors of 77 Squadron RA. Meanwhile, in the P-51, fitted with the It acted as a long-range escort and could cover great distances to protect bombers on their missions. 450mph and the jet aircraft could not have been going over 200mph. euronews (en franais) More from MotorTrend. More information in Terms and rules. Report. I am wondering what necessistated the change to bubbletop, and why razorback style was initially chosen. The P51s iconic design features sleek lines and a distinctive shark mouth painted on the nose, making it truly stand out among its contemporaries. Which aircraft is the better fighter? he shot down a Soviet MIG jet. The aim was to attack jets on their landing approach, when they were at their most vulnerable, travelling slowly, with flaps down and incapable of rapid acceleration. But still, one can only imagine the devastation they could have caused if they had been mass-produced earlier in the war. Join in if you dare! Is there a written history on the Sonderkommando Elbe? P-47 didn't have a propeller cone like FW-190 or Sea Fury had to reduce drag. In addition, this site installs Google Analytics in version 4 (GA4) with anonymous data transmission via proxy. Shopping Cart: 0 item(s) / $0 . Why did Sidewinder missiles score so well before Vietnam? Only in exceptional cases, the IP address will be sent to Google's servers and shortened within the United States. Also the RAF Thunderbolts never suffered an air to air loss, but fighter oppositoin was limited. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. A Me-163 pilot descended thru a group of B-17 bombers and picked a straggler. A design is a team effort, still, Schmued deserves much credit, The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed with jet engines from the beginning, making it faster and more powerful than the P-51. The Messerschmitt M . The Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet was a German rocket-powered fighter aircraft. Messerschmitt AG Perodo de produo 1941-1945 Quantidade produzida 1430 (com os produzidos na Tchecoslovquia) Primeiro voo em 18 de abrilde 1941 (81 anos) com motor a pisto 18 de julhode 1942 (80 anos) com motor turbojato Introduzido em abrilde 1944 Aposentado em 1945, Alemanha 1951Tchecoslovquia Variantes Avia S-92 Tripulao 1 OPTIONAL: JeuxVideo.com. Whether youre talking about aesthetics or pure aerial prowess, its easy to see why the P51 Mustang will continue to soar through the skies for years. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. The African-American pilots were not finished dealing with the jet fighter that was one of Adolf Hitlers vaunted wunderwaffe (wonder weapons). The form of anonymisation is no longer acceptable. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. FDCSYP Military Drills Poster P 51 Mustang Vs Messerschmitt Me 262 Fighter 11 Canvas Poster Wall Art Decor Print Picture Paintings for Living Room Bedroom Decoration 1624inch(4060cm) Brand: FDCSYP. The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. 4 x 20mm long-barrel Hispano-Suiza cannons in wings. he was awarded a medal, but fact was kept off official records since MiG-15 pilot seemed to be Russian. Playing next. ", "On November 8, 1950, the then Capt. Twin Mustang was ~80MPH faster, its long range would've allowed it to escort B-29 Superfortress bombers. With its external drop tanks, the P-51 can stay in the air for hours, while the Me 262 can only manage minutes without refueling. flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which WinbiTV. Leutnant Gerhard Robert, and Oberfahnrich Heinz Russel, continued to taxi out In his interview with Defense Media Network, Brown said, High-altitude escort was probably the most important mission in the war and shortened the war by about six months because it enabled the bombers to go a longer distance into Germany and destroy their infrastructure their rail hubs, oil refineries, and so on., Dr. Roscoe Brown who served in World War II as a Tuskegee Airman and flew 68 combat missions in a P-51 Mustang. Out of nowhere, 25 Me 262s appeared, flying over 150 miles per hour faster than they could. Place of processing: Ireland Privacy Policy. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. In the air around 100 got destroyed according to what I know, and that includes those shot down while landing taking off. I was still indicating about 400mph and I had Luftwaffe fighter arms nemesis. This is due to the tremendous speed of the enemy aircraft.. Ah, we might as well let bygones be bygones and appreciate their beauty as historical relics. real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). Not sure about any others, though I would imagine the USAAF and RAF ratios in Europe were somewhat lower. The enemy aircraft exploded violently, and as I looked back at the two [ref: Flying to the Limit by Peter Caygill] @PieterGeerkens agreed, likely statisctically insignificant (it could depend on the number combinations of aircraft that actually engaged the 262, and of those numbers which percentage emerged the more victorious, but even so, these are small numbers so yeah, not much statistical significance could be attached). [emphasis added], During March, Me 262 fighter units were able, for the first time, to mount large-scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. Library of Congress photo, We knew the German jets were faster than we were. (f-106deltadart.com)] Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. - Use code TJ3Gaming for a discount on all their products! The P-51 Mustang or the Me 262 Schwalbe? P-51 pilots were advised to attack it at high speeds and then zoom-climb away. On 18 March 1945, 37 Me 262s of JG 7 intercepted a force of 1,221 bombers and 632 escorting fighters. I then pulled up and circled over the spot where he went down. The nemesis of P-51 wasn't the jet Me-262 -- it was the radial-engine FW-190. Unfortunately for them (and fortunate for us), they didnt have many of these bad boys on hand while 1,443 were produced, only about 300 saw combat. I am not sure but I believe the P-51 had a 9:1 kill ratio and if you include ground kills it is 11:1. But which fighter was better? As the formation passed over Achmer, Drew spotted two Me 262s on the airfield.

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